Sunday, March 14, 2010

Sounds Like Social Justice to Me

If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength being small;
if you hold back from rescuing those taken away to death,
those who go staggering to the slaughter;
if you say, “Look, we did not know this”—
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it?
And will he not repay all according to their deeds?
-Proverbs 24:1-12 (Also see Matt 25:44)

Speak out for those who cannot speak,
for the right of the destitute.
Speak out, judge righteously,
defend the rights of the poor and needy.
-Proverbs 31:8-9

If you close your ear to the poor, you will cry out and not be heard.
-Proverbs 21:13

To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
-Proverbs 21:3

And that’s just a few of them from one of the 66 books of the Bible.

Amen.  To quote Robert Tuttle:  “Dont’ mess with the poor!  You don’t mess with the poor.”

While God calls us to do those things, there is also 2 Thess. 3:10 that says if a man doesn’t work, he doesn’t eat .... as well as Proverbs 29 that talks about true justice coming from only God. While Glenn may have made sweeping generalizations, the point is a church that focuses on the social justice verses but ignores the responsibility verses - is in sin and disobedience. many churches do this. and as blessed as we are in America, there are very few within our borders that are genuinely voiceless and “poor”. The “poor” in our country are richer than most of the world. So keep that in mind…

The confusing part about the social justice debate always takes me back to Luke 10:30-37(a priest and a Levite passed him by on the other side or maybe even went and told someone what they saw).However the Samaritin took action,bandages,oil and wine and housing.The priest and the Levites in those days were the “good guys"the advocates for the masses if I may.So who helped the man in need.Sometimes I think people confuse guilt with compassion and pass some by hoping to advocate for him to the government.I am not as concerned about what you think of the poor but more about what you do (like the Samaritin).And its amazing that those that advocate for the poor often saying we all could pay a little more to Ceasar to help the poor.They sit under tax exempt status groups that pay no federal tax,maybe its time that be re-examined imagine how many poor people could be helped if they just started paying their fair share.

Amen Samaritin - we are called to minister to the “least” on a personal level. The good Samaritan didn’t see the man on the road and help by going and voting for the government bureaucrats to tax the land and give him a gift card. He took it upon himself to personally help. That’s what we need to do. Not only does it mean more, but more importantly - it’s more effective.

Hi, Ben and Samaratin. Thanks for commenting.
You mention that churches that focus on social justice to the exclusion of “responsibility verses” are in sin and disobedience. So I must ask - where are these churches? Are there specific churches you have in mind? Because I don’t know of any myself. I think if you actually look for such examples, you will find very few. I think you would find it much easier to find churches that NEVER preach social justice, and only preach an individualistic gospel about getting souls into heaven. Are these churches also in sin and disobedience?

I ask this question because I suspect that the real issue for Beckists and politically conservative Christians is not that social justice is preached too MUCH, but that it is preached AT ALL. Moreover I believe it is the assertion that God may care more about how we vote in ways that go beyond abortion and gay marriage bills that really bothers Beckists. I am not saying this is true of you, but I believe that it is true of Beck. 

I have to say I think y’all’s exegesis is pretty thin. You mention Proverbs 29 (I’m assuming verse 26) which says that many seek the favor of a ruler, but it is from YHWH that one gets justice. It is preceded by verse 14 and verse 4 (and many others, some of which I listed in the original post - by the way, how do you interpret those?), which suggest leaders and their nations are still held accountable for doing justice to the poor. Even if true justice comes from God (as do true love, true beauty, and truth itself) does that then mean it is not our duty also to do justice (Micah 6:8), even if it “approximate” justice? Do I no longer have to love my neighbor if true love comes from God?

As for the parable of the man robbed on the Jericho road - do you really think the priest and Samaritan passed by because they thought the Roman occupiers would take care of the beaten man? How do you think the original hearers of that parable understood it? How would you react if Jesus said that a conservative Christians passed by, a liberal Christian passed by, but then a gay Muslim stopped and helped the beaten man? Would that rankle a bit?

However, I do take your point. Liberals who think they can abdicate personal responsibility to love their neighbor by passing the buck to social service government agencies are not loving their neighbor. But neither are conservatives who practice conscience-salving individual acts of charity that do nothing to address the structural problems that keep people poor. In Alabama, we pay very little property tax, but sales tax on groceries is 10%. This means in a given year, the poorest people in the state are still giving to the government the equivalent of 1.5 months of groceries. So the poor are subsidizing the property of homeowners with their food. We are taking food out of the mouths of the poor to pay for education and local service for the wealthiest people. But I find that many Christians are happy to bring canned goods to food closets rather than the far less sexy and far more boring work of calling their representatives to advocate for the poor. So who really loves their neighbor?

While you can certainly go serve a meal in a homeless shelter, that doesn’t help them get or keep a job. Until you get to know the people who are homeless and learn about their stories, you can maintain the illusion that they are poor “because they don’t work.“They DO work, many of them, but their jobs do not pay enough for them to have safe and reliable housing. Many of them also do not have reliable transportation in a culture that requires cars. So people who advocate for social justice also advocate for public transportation. So they CAN get to work.

So, no, I don’t buy the argument that social justice is a cop out for loving your neighbor. Much the reverse, in fact.

The final point you want me to keep in mind is that the poor in America are better off than the poor in some countries. That is true. I have been in developing countries where the poor have no social services whatsoever. But you can also make the counterpoint that the poor in developed nations are MUCH better off than the poor in our country. They have public health care, for example. And the longevity and health statistics in those countries are much better than the averages in ours.

I would also argue that poverty is not measured in absolute terms. Poverty is not just how much money you have, but how much access you have to political power, how much access you have to employment opportunities to change your station in life, etc. Poor people in the US are far less upwardly mobile than in some other developed countries because they don’t have access to those social services. Again, you have to own a car in many cities in order to hold down a job. That’s a big hurdle for many. While they may be better off than someone without a job in Bolivia, their prospects for changing their future may be about the same.

Ben,

I think the irony of your (mis)use of Proverbs 29 was already revealed above.  I should point out that before that, you quote 2 Thess 3:10 way out of context.  It has nothing to do with poor people, but Paul is instead confronting Christians with a bad eschatology (which I find i so many conservative Christian camps today).  As I interpret the text, the Thessalonian Christians were quitting their jobs, waiting on the ‘imminent’ return of Jesus.  That’s what Paul was addressing.  So note that this rule of life was given by Paul only to Christians, a problem which had arisen because of erroneous information about Jesus’ return.  Paul was not addressing those that fit the modern stereotype that has been placed on all poor people—that of being lazy.  Far from it.  Stereotypically, the poor work harder than you, me, or anyone else wearing white collars.  We’re the lazy ones sitting behind our computers ‘working’ for our daily bread, while poor, underpaid workers are the ones harvesting it for us, hoping that some crumbs fall from our table.  Sounds like “on earth as it is in heaven” to me…

Dave,thanks for allowing me to clear up the good Samaritin story ,as a matter of fact your last 2 post directed at Lewis Myself and Ben have provided evidence for my interpretation. So lets go down that “rabbit trail”.Samaritin (regular guy,not well read,not well respected,hard working,paid his taxes,helped the poor helped his neighbor,not a theologin,not an activist or an advocate,just a regular joe doing whats right.)Levite and priest(well read,well respected,always knows whats best, bat phone to God. eager to give advice (maybe even a 501 (c) (3),theologin, religous expert.)But when it came to identifying and helping neighbors they left it to the Samaritin.In conclusion (in my personal opinion)I think the Samaritins are tired of the priest and Levites telling them they need to do more when they do very little but talk.In respond to your Question.“Do you think if churches were taxed they would do more or less to help the poor?I say less just as if the individual is taxed more he will do less to help the church and that results in less to help the poor (I have never assumed the government is the be all end all for the poor).I am not sure the priest and the Levites of today (many of whom are exempt from federal income tax)are in the position to tell the Samaritin how to help the poor.One last comment I will assume since you stated poverty is not measured in absolutes.“social justice” could not be either.I never said write social justice out of the bible and I never said I supported Becks opinion. I am asking this: Are the priest and the Levites the ones to head up the “social justice"police,and tell the Samaritins how its done? Its not about “social justice"its about the religous elite (Levites and priest) always knowing whats best for the Samaritin,but we already know how the story ended in Luke.

Dave I hope you are not taking this personal.What I am trying to say is when some get in the pulpit of their multi million $$ mega church.With their multi million dollar activities building and gym (for members only)and announce the up coming faith cruise with Pastor Adam and our Wednesday night supper in our modern fully stocked industrial kitchen and we will pick you up in our 20 passenger air conditioned van if you need.Dont forget if you havent signed up for the womens shopping retreat to The Summit Please do so today.Now for todays sermon “social justice” and how you as a Christian should help the poor.This is not what Jesus intended not by any stretch.And I think the Good Samaritin story is just one of many passages that illustrate this.These churches and leaders lend very little creedence to their desire to help the poor,other than with what they have left after all the things the church “needs”.However they are the first to tell me I could do more,and I should tithe more and the government should tax me more so the poor can be helped.

Dave I listened to a couple of your sermons on-line and I can tell you love the Lord.Even though we disagree on some things and you suggest I might be reading a different bible ,I think we know and love the same Jesus.